ISKCON London’s homosex harinam tattvaHanuman das
UPDATE: See Govinda das defense article and my response here
Who is the main ISKCON baba in London? Radhanath baba. Who has the biggest number of disciples in London? Radhanath baba. Whose disciple is temple president in Soho? Radhanath baba’s.
So, when anal harinam happens in London, who is to blame? Radhanath baba. As I pointed out many times, Radhanath baba loves everybody, that is his major problem. And if you are Radhanath baba’s follower, you will be also trained to love everybody, however, that will not be the type of love Prabhupada had. Prabhupada didn’t like mayavadis, and Prabhupada didn’t instruct devotees to support gay pride. And the result of following Radhanath baba, you might end up in anal harinam.
Yesterday, I shared anal harinam on my facebook wall, and many people started commenting, what surprised me that actually majority of devotees agreed that anal harinama is not the way to go for this movement. You can read the whole discussion here
Then, I was also contacted over my website chat where I had to clarify my position.
Conversation started on Wednesday, July 26 2017, 16:02 ================================================================ [16:03] Visitor navigated to https://lastingimpression.info/ [16:05] London devotee : Hare Krishna [16:05] Hanuman has joined the conversation. [16:05] Hanuman : Hare Rama. [16:08] London devotee : Pardon my ignorance, but I fail to see what is wrong in having Harinam at Gay pride? Since these harinam devotees are not promoting homosexuality, rather promoting Krishna's name and making those fallen souls aware of Krishna? [16:08] Hanuman : Would you join spreading Holly name in brothel? Prostitutes are also souls. [16:09] London devotee : no but this was a public event, out on the street and many passers by would get to hear Krishna's names [16:11] London devotee : and maybe someone would take to KC seriously [16:11] Hanuman : If devotees have harinam near gay pride, what message do we send to public? [16:12] London devotee : that we are also part of gay pride [16:12] London devotee : aaaah [16:12] London devotee : I see now!!!!!! [16:12] Hanuman : No. [16:12] Hanuman : Message is that Prabhupada was gay neutral or gay supporter. [16:12] Hanuman : And that is simply not true. [16:12] Hanuman : Prabhupada was anti gay. [16:13] Hanuman : Prabhupada was strongly anti gay. [16:13] London devotee : ah yes I understand now [16:13] London devotee : Thank you for explaining [16:14] Hanuman : Thank you for understanding. :joy: [16:14] London devotee : I didn't know that's the message they were trying to get across...that Srila Prabhupada was gay neutral or supportive [16:15] London devotee : I thought they were just having harinam to spread Krishna's name [16:15] Hanuman : Yes, whatever you do, there are multiple layers. [16:15] Hanuman : In Croatia, we made harinam on the main square 10 years ago. [16:16] Hanuman : We made harinam on the wrong day. [16:16] Hanuman : It was some kind of commemoration day for soldiers who died in Yugoslav war. [16:16] Hanuman : And people took offense. [16:17] Hanuman : Government banned us from having harinams on main square for the next 3 years. [16:17] Hanuman : Well, we just wanted to spread the Holly Name. [16:17] London devotee : oh yes it makes a lot of sense now [16:18] London devotee : Sometimes here in London devotees distribute books in pubs [16:19] London devotee : like going table to table offering people bookbs [16:19] London devotee : books* [16:19] London devotee : is that ok? [16:19] Hanuman : I guess so. [16:20] Hanuman : Are they are in civilian clothes? [16:20] London devotee : sometimes.. I guess both [16:21] London devotee : for example, during Winter marathon, sometimes devotees like to dress up as Santa or some characters [16:21] London devotee : I mean I've seen a few do that [16:21] London devotee : and then they distribute books [16:27] Hanuman : Well, I don't see that as a problem. [16:28] Hanuman : If somebody entered all the places in certain street and tried to sell his books there. [16:28] Hanuman : Some of those places are pubs. [16:28] Hanuman : I don't see how that makes us look as we promote alcohol. [16:29] Hanuman : But in harinam, we are very visible, we stick on one location, it is easy to connect the dots. [16:30] London devotee : yes true
Praghosa’s anal joke
Besides Radhanath baba, who failed to train his disciples in philosophy of Krishna consciousness, there is one more person responsible for this fiasco, that is Praghosa das, GBC for UK. Well, it’s not surprising, since he is telling anal jokes to children at GBC meetings:
- Anal joke article, which we can’t be sure if it is true
- Antarwip das defends defends anal joke, correcting some words, but this article definitely proves that the whole incident took place.
- Final thoughts on the issue
Prabhupada glorifies gay pride
My Dear Lalitananda dasa,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (letter May 26th, 1975)
Look at this quote, Prabhupada actually advises devotees to solve homosex problem:
Prabhupāda: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don’t want. They’re not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much. Especially in the… Everywhere, not specially this or that. Everywhere. This is Kali-yuga. But thoughtful leaders, they are thinking, “What to do?” That’s very good sign. And take advantage and give them program exactly to the direction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then the world will be saved. Otherwise it is doomed. It is a fact. This is the opportunity for preaching. You can take that paper and heading. There are so many headings. Each heading reply. We are the only persons who can give solution. There is no other group or any man in the world. We are only. So let them take advantage of our knowledge and apply in the society to the ben… That’s all right. Now all the sannyāsīs have got the good opportunity to preach. So where is the key? Keep it. ( https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/arrival/arrival/chicago/july/03/1975)
Nowadays, a śūdra is on the government. A person who is a nonsense number one, he has no knowledge, he is on the head of the government. The things have been topsy-turvied. A person on religious category, he’s advocating something, oh, it is not to be uttered. Homosex. You see? He’s advocating homosex. Just see. These has been topsy-turvied. The four classes of men are there, still. But the third-class, fourth-class man is taking the place of first class. (Sunday Feast Lecture — Los Angeles, May 21, 1972)
What an irony, this conversation happened in London:
Prabhupāda: These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification, homosex, they are supporting. Just see. Just see. At least, in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex, and that is being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know that?
Devotee: Yes, I’ve heard.
Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. [break] Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. (Room Conversation,
August 25, 1971, London)
Prabhupada: Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena paricīyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that “We are very much advanced.” Phalena, what is the result? Phalena paricīyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) “We are going to support homosex.” Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?
Prabhupāda: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā [SB 5.18.12], godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathena asato dhāvato… They simply go to the untruth by mental speculation. (Conversation with the GBC, May 25, 1972, Los Angeles)
Prabhupāda: These so-called Christians. They say that “We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That’s all.”
Trivikrama: “So let us go on sinning.”
Pañcadraviḍa: Kill him again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: “Yes, homosex is all right.” Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You’ll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kālī that “We are eating Mother Kali’s prasāda.” That’s it. This is going on.(Morning Walk, April 2, 1975, Mayapur)
There are numerous quotes like that, but you will never hear them on any ISKCON lecture. Why? Because majority of today’s leaders are followers of agent “Spineless jelly”, they are not followers of Prabhupada. And of all possible places to make harinam, we have to go anal pride and look as we think that “gay is ok”. Maybe we should make next harinam in brothel?