Bangalore disasterHanuman das
UPDATE April 18th 2017: See verdict here
UPDATE April 15th 2017: Nothing happened, article is back. Now this article can only be replaced by IIAC decision, nothing else will remove this article.
UPDATE March 22nd 2017: I was informed that currently there is IIAC investigation going on headed by Basu Gosh das, and this article is impeding the investigation and fair treatment of Caitanya Caran. IIAC investigation will be completed within 2-3 weeks. I am removing my article as requested by disciple of Srila Prabhupada, who is fighting nonsense for many years and therefore deserved my trust.
March 18th 2017: Hare Krishna, today, we are making FULL DISCLOSURE of Bangalore incident, which happened in August 2016. These materials are showing effects of Radhanath Swami’s disregarding Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. Disciples picked up this idea, and how they are also attacking Prabhupada. As an introduction, we made video in which we show some of the materials, and we compare perfectness of Prabhupada and perfectness of Radhanath Swami. Video is called Radhanath Swami’s imperfect Prabhupada.’ All other materials are below under FULL DISCLOSURE heading.
- Hospital deviation: Hospital prema video
- Radhanath’s Ramesh baba deviation: Journey Home and A.S.S. philosphy
- Eye camp deviation: A sad story of cataract removal
- Mayavadi philosophy deviation: Quote Prabhupada and be happy
FULL DISCLOSURE of Caitanya Caran Bangalore incident
In this section, Bangalore devotees give problematic excerpts from Caitanya Carans lecture, and also provide recordings.
Srila Prabhupada was not a perfectionist
Listen from 9:30 to 10:00
About Srila Prabhupada’s lack of systematic presentation in his books
- We may not get a systematic understanding of philosophy from Srila Prabhupada’s books.
- No systematic article in Prabhupada’s books so we need to have systematic presentations.
Listen from 9:00 to 10:40
About Women and Intelligence – Part1
- No one should ever minimize women by saying they are less intelligent, its undevotional. In that sense, Prabhupada when he says that women are less intelligent, he is talking about women in spiritual level, he is not taking about material level, he is taking about the level of interaction between spirit & matter, the extent of misidentification on spirit and matter
About papa – yonayah & women for sloka 9.32
- BBT translation uses papa-yonayah as adjective, But CCP has done elaborate study with another scholar devotee on 18 commentaries on this verse & 8 – 10 of them take it as the separate category, questioning Prabhupada’s translation
- Even Vaishyas cannot be considered as papa-yonayah in any analysis –
- Prabhupada DID NOT freeze his translations
- To see papa-yonayah as the 4th category is very much in harmony with the tradition
- So papa yonayah is not necessarily describing woman
- Prabhupada has not come to terminate parampara, Prabhupada has come to perpetuate parampara, He has not come as a cult leader, we are not building a personality cult around Prabhupada
- We have to see as per our intelligence in the guidance of senior devotees based on Time, place, circumstances.
- Prabhupada presented things different from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati
- Everything in literature cannot be kept as it is, times have changed?
Listen from 5:00 to 10:00<br/>
Listen from 1:00 to 10:00
About Women and Intelligence – Part2
- Today there is a feminist situation, this male – female equality is a big issue, any discrimination inflames into big issue, so ultimately if you are not body, why should we get into this issue?
- Prabhupada said it, by saying woman as papa-yonayah we do violence to BG …….. , people see this and close the book, so don’t present it
- Everything present in scriptures is not a teaching of scripture, so 9.32 sloka spoken by Krishna, so what does this mean? This sloka is an incidental thing
- Comparing Krishna’s teaching with Hiranyakashipu’s dialogues
- Krishna is saying, this is the conception at that time & even if it is true, these people can attain perfection, I am not saying it is true or not.
- Our purpose is not just to speak the truth, our purpose is to speak the truth in a way, we can attract people to the truth.
- We have to know what is important & what is not important.
- In our own tradition, we have a flexibility of interpreting.
Listen from 0:00 to 8:30
Understanding a pure devotee
- We have a whole notion that a pure devotee means perfect in every respect, but that is mayavada, we are making Prabhupada into God, only God is perfect in all respects.
- Just because Prabhupada is a pure devotee that means he has to be perfect in everything.
- By imagining Prabhupada is perfect in everything, we are bringing Mayavad in this movement.
- The perfection is in intention, perfection is not in execution.
- The simplistic idea of faithfulness to Prabhupada in terms of accepting everything as it is that can end up doing violence to Prabhupada.
Listen 0:00 to 8:30
Questioning Srila Prabhupada’s presentation – based on Guru, Sadhu and Sastra?
- Prabhupada has said a particular statement about the intelligence of woman, now where is it said by sadhus, where is it said in shastras, where is it said. I have not any found any statements in shastra directly speaking about intelligence of woman.
- Not that we take message of Guru, sadhu & shastra & neglect one small issue into big issue & eliminate 1000s of potential devotees because of that
Listen 0:00 to 8:00
The last comment, Caitanya Caran Prabhu says – “where is it said by sadhus, where is it said in shastras, where is it said… I have not any found any statements in shastra directly speaking about intelligence of woman.”
We found the following references in Srimad Bhagavatam alone.
Surrendered souls, even from groups leading sinful lives, such as women, the laborer class, the mountaineers and the Sabaras, or even the birds and beasts, can also know about the science of Godhead and become liberated from the clutches of the illusory energy by surrendering unto the pure devotees of the Lord and by following in their footsteps in devotional service. (SB 2.7.46)
Because of the long duration of time that has passed and because of her being a woman and therefore less intelligent, my mother has forgotten all those instructions; but the great sage Narada blessed me, and therefore I could not forget them. (SB 7.7.16)
My dear son, Kapila, after all, I am a woman. It is very difficult for me to understand the Absolute Truth because my intelligence is not very great. But if You will kindly explain it to me, even though I am not very intelligent, I can understand it and thereby feel transcendental happiness. (SB 3.25.30)
Devahuti requested her great son to be merciful towards her because she was a less intelligent woman and also His mother. By the grace of Kapiladeva it was quite possible for her to understand the Absolute Truth, even though the subject matter is very difficult for ordinary persons, especially women. (SB 3.25.30 purport)
Thereafter Sati left her husband, Lord Siva, who had given her half his body due to affection. Breathing very heavily because of anger and bereavement, she went to the house of her father. This less intelligent act was due to her being a weak woman. (SB 4.4.3)
Here is a difference between male and female that exists even in the higher statuses of life — in fact, even between Lord Siva and his wife. Lord Siva could understand Citraketu very nicely, but Parvati could not. Thus even in the higher statuses of life there is a difference between the understanding of a male and that of a female. It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man. In the Western countries there is now agitation to the effect that man and woman should be considered equal, but from this verse it appears that woman is always less intelligent than man. (SB 6.17.34, SB 6.17.35, SB 6.17.34-35 purport)
See also these two nice articles by Hari Sauri regarding the intelligence of women:
- PDF – Caitanya Caran prabhu speaks in his own defense
- PDF – Caitanya Caran prabhu conversation excerpts with Madhura Gauranga das and Narayana Padmanabhan das
- PDF – Email conversation with Caitanya Caran prabhu
- PDF – Radheshyam Prabhu’s letter about Caitanya Caran prabhu
- PDF – Srila Prabhupada is perfect – seminar notes by Vidvan Gauranga Prabhu
- PDF – Material vs spiritual Prabhupada – question for Caitanya Caran prabhu
- PDF – Discussion on rape issue
- Expert at rape – article by HH Jayadvaita Swami
- PDF – Vidvan Gauranga prabhu’s phone conversation with Caitanya Caran prabhu
- PDF – Was Prabhupada predicting the future or just chatting
- PDF – A critique of Caitanya Caran prabhu’s analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s writing style
- PDF – Caitanya Caran prabhu – when child grows he can correct the parent
Letter by Prabhupada’s disciple about Caitanya Caran
Subject: Fwd: Offensive statement about Srila Prabhupada by Caitanya caran prabhu Date: September 14, 2016 at 7:29:41 PM GMT+5:30
Dear God-brothers and loyal disciples of Srila Prabhupada,
As disciples of Srila Prabhupada we can not allow this matter (described below) to be brushed aside as described here:
“Meantime Dayaram prabhu was made aware of this matter and he has asked us not to proceed any further in this regard, as the matter seems to have been sorted out with Bhakti Rasamrita Swami – Chaitanya Caran prabhu’s councillor.”
Caitanya Caran is not a new bhakta, for him to have such opinions about Srila Prabhupada is the symptom of a very deep spiritual malaise. So I am highly skeptical that everything is now “sorted out.” I am reminded of the many times that Ravindra Swarupa and Bir Krsna and other friends of Hridayananda went to meet him to “sort out” his misunderstandings. We all know how that ended. HdG would smile, make his perfunctory apology and then after a short period of time continue business as usual. In fact Caitanya Carana das has been described as the HdG of India.
We criticized the GBC for not dealing strongly with HdG and removing him from all his positions. And by failing in their duty HdG has spawned all kinds of deviations the latest being Krsna West.
So we will be just as guilty if ISKCON India doesn’t stop Caitanya Caran das in his tracks NOW. To let him continue in any position is sheer folly. Our leaders must be totally sold out “Prabhupada men” – that is definitely not Caitanya Caran das.
If he is let off with a slap on the wrist then like HdG he will grow like a cancer in ISKCON, hiding his real beliefs and feelings as he bides his time and gains more influence, and encouraging like minded people to get into influential positions. What kind of ISKCON India will we have if top leaders are like Caitanya Caran? If we as Prabhupada disciples allow this guru druha to continue then it will be a real black spot on our souls and ensure the undermining and destruction of ISKCON after we depart.
And what will it do to the faith of loyal devotees, like the ones in Bangalore if this guru aparadi is so lightly dealt with and allowed to keep his position to influence and poison others? The whole congregation in Bangalore knows about this incident. As the letter below suggests their blood is boiling with rage and I totally support them. They want to see this handled with strong action, they are very disturbed that it is being swept under the rug. Also remember these are the same devotees who rebelled against MPD because they didn’t like the way he dispensed justice. Hence I suggest that if you want to keep this out of the public glare that you do the needful now or some (rightly) angered person will make it public and then a lot of pressure will be put on the Bureau to do what they should have done in the first place.
“To save a family a member can be sacrificed. To save a town you can sacrifice a family. And to save a country you can sacrifice a town. But save your soul you can sacrifice everything.” Canakya
Caitanya Caran das should be:
- removed from all positions
- not allowed on the vyasasana for 5 years (no classes, seminars or preaching of any type)
- not represent ISKCON on the internet (shut down his websites etc)
- his books taken out circulation until it can be determined if they are tainted or not
- he should wash pots for 6 months
- he should write a separate essay defeating each of the offensive statements he made
What happened to Caitanya Caran after this incident?
Nothing, and because of that, I am publishing all these materials. So that we can all understand what kind of leadership is guiding this movement and protecting Prabhupada’s legacy.